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| | | A Dance With Dragons |  |
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Calwyn
Sidekick
Posts : 1067
Join date : 2009-06-03
Age : 37
Location : Ercildoune
| | Subject: A Dance With Dragons Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:41 pm | |
| Better than the last book, certainly. But that's mostly because it followed the better characters and storylines. I liked the book, I really did. But after I finished it I couldn't but feel that nothing of real consequence happened. - Spoiler:
Jon was (maybe?) killed, after spending the whole book slowly letting more of the Wildlings through the wall, and getting into the same argument with his Black Brothers and the Queen over whether to save the wildlings so they have help defending the wall from the wights, or to kill them/let them die.
Dany waited for a seige/attack, then held it off by marrying one of Mereen's nobles, then flew off on one of her dragons and seems to be meeting a group of Dothraki. Her storyline seemed to building towards a huge standoff/battle against all the other cities, including a big invasion fleet, but none of that happened by the end of the book.
Tyrion was probably the most eventful storyline. He arrived in Pentos, then was sent to join the Targaryen Prince's party, then got carted off by Jorah, then got captured by slavers, then snuck away to join a group of sellswords after his master died of some kind of plague. Yet from the beginning the book was building up his meeting with Dany... and it never happened.
That Ironmen admiral that's after Dany and her dragons also never encountered the big fleet that was after her. All he really did was meet a Red Priest and have his hand burned.
There's that Dornish Prince that was also after Dany and her dragons. In the end he was burned by said dragons. I'm actually quite confused as to what the point of his character was. Was it to add another POV for the situation Dany was in? I hope that's all cleared up in the next one.
There's Griff and the Targaryen prince, they arrive in Griff's homeland and start to conquer the area.
There's Jaime getting a Lord to surrender and then disappearing with Brienne.
There's Cersei being broken down and made to walk through the city naked.
There's Kevin Lannister being killed by Varys.
There's Bran reaching the Greenseer and finally being taught how to use his powers, with no significant progress being made.
There's Stannis leaving the Wall, capturing a town held by the Ironmen led by Theon's sister, and being stopped three days short of Winterfell by a massive snowstorm just as word arrives that one of his so-called allies camped with him is a traitor. Most of this storyline seemed to involve travelling on the road.
There's Theon himself revealed as being alive, a broken slave, but finding himself again and saving Jeyne aka Arya from the Boltons in Winterfell.
There was Davos seeking out the fat Lord, having his execution faked, and then being sent on his way to bring back one of the Starks to raise as Lord of the North.
There's Arya being trained while blind, then being given her eyesight back, then killing a man to be accepted into the assassin guild's ranks.
I THINK that's all of the storylines. Most seemed to only have three or so chapters devoted to them, most interweaving with more main storylines/characters like Tyrion, Jon Snow and Dany. Of those three, it was all development and no landmarks. In other words, it was the Wheel of Time all over again 
Last edited by Calwyn on Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | | IMagius
Primary Character
Posts : 326
Join date : 2009-11-19
Age : 52
Location : Ontario, Canada
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:39 pm | |
| - Calwyn wrote:
- Better than the last book, certainly. But that's mostly because it followed the better characters and storylines. I liked the book, I really did. But after I finished it I couldn't but feel that nothing of real consequence happened.
These were my thoughts exactly. | |
| | | | talonnolan
Shard Bearer
Posts : 570
Join date : 2009-05-26
Age : 43
Location : Everywhere
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:31 am | |
| It's the middle books that these "epic fantasy" authors are really having issues with. They drag and NOTHING HAPPENS AT ALL IN THEM!!!
Brandon Sanderson talked about this several times around when Stormlight was coming out. How it would be 10 books. And he was specifically working on not having this happen to his series. I really hope he can pull it off. (Even though we probably won't see the first "middle" book in at least 10 years i bet. Ugh.) | |
| | | | Dinwar
Primary Character
Posts : 412
Join date : 2009-10-08
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:52 pm | |
| If you think about it, nothing's really happened in ANY of the books. The only deaths that have mattered are Ned's and Robert's, and the only things of long-ranging consequence that happened occurred either prior to the books, or haven't happened yet. Don't get me wrong, Martin tells a good story. It's just that.....well, Goodkind's best book was Faith of the Fallen.
I've said it before, but it still holds true: A story, by its nature, must end. If it doesn't, it is not, by definition, a story. It's just a random bunch of events Maybe Martin will tie everything together. I'm just not sure it's worth waiting another decade or so to find out. | |
| | | | Calwyn
Sidekick
Posts : 1067
Join date : 2009-06-03
Age : 37
Location : Ercildoune
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:35 am | |
| I'd say Robb's death was pretty significant.
But I don't necessarily think that only deaths = "something happening".
It could be a battle, it could be an important encounter/conversation/revelation, it could be a long journey reaching a destination, or whatever.
In SOT there were certain key events, at the very least at the end of each book: like every individual book resulted in some climactic moment. And there were other such, lesser, moments in each book. Take WFR: Richard meets Kahlan, finds out who Zedd is, is named Seeker, Zedd and Chase knocked out and they go on without them, they find the Mud People and have the gathering, they meet Shota, they go to Tamarang, Richard is captured by Denna and is 'broken', the others are almost captured by the D'Harans and Kahlan enters the Con Dar, Richard meets Scarlett and gets her to help him, they all meet up at the end and Richard defeats Darken Rahl.
Those are key events in the book I would use to tell the story in a very short summary. I could do the same kind of thing with the others in the series, and with other books in other series.
But with Dance with Dragons it's harder to do, though thats for two reasons: the first is that it seems like there were far fewer (obvious) moments of import, and the second is that there were so many other storylines you cant really summarize the book as a whole, you have to do each storyline.
Take Jon's storyline, this is how I would summarize it like I did with SOT: he argues with Stannis, his Black Brothers, the Wildlings, Stannis' wife, the Queen's knights, then he's attacked.
Dany: She argues with her counsellors, doesn't trust anyone, sleeps with Daario, marries one of Mereen's nobles, flies off with Drogon.
Tyrion: arrives in Pentos, meets Illyrio, meets Griff and the Targaryen prince, taken by Mormont, captured by Slavers, joins a Sellsword group.
And so on. None of those moments really seem to have the 'climactic' impact like the ones I mentioned in WFR. And thats the kind of thing I mean when I say it feels like nothing really happened.
I agree with what you say, that a book can't always have SOMETHING important happening. But I say that, relative to other books and series out there, this one specifically seemed to have even less happening than usual. | |
| | | | Dinwar
Primary Character
Posts : 412
Join date : 2009-10-08
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:48 pm | |
| - Quote :
- But I don't necessarily think that only deaths = "something happening".
Oh, no doubt--I'm just saying that the world hasn't significantly changed from the beginning of the series. There's a war, but that's been going on since the start. - Quote :
- I'd say Robb's death was pretty significant.
Possibly in the short term, but not ultimately. There's still and heir. - Quote :
In SOT there were certain key events, at the very least at the end of each book: like every individual book resulted in some climactic moment. The difference is that Goodkind wrote each book as a stand-alone book, with the exception of the final trilogy. Martin is making no such attempt. Which means that none of Martin's books are actually stories--they're all bits and pieces of a story. Combine that with the fact that it's going to be at least 10 years before we get the last two books (and the propensity of writers in this day and age to continue writing well after the series should have ended), and you have to wonder if it's worth it to follow the series anymore. Maybe in 20 or 30 years it'll be fun to pick up and read through (assuming he finishes it), but right now? There's not enough to keep people interested. | |
| | | | Calwyn
Sidekick
Posts : 1067
Join date : 2009-06-03
Age : 37
Location : Ercildoune
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:38 am | |
| It'll be hard for me if it takes another 5 years for the next book to come out. I didn't do a read through to refresh myself of everything that happens before this book came out, but I could get away with that for the most part because I only started the series a year ago. From what I feel of the series, I don't expect I'll bother reading through it before the next one comes out either. Just don't like it enough to do so. So I anticipate there will be a lot I will have forgotten. Might have to cave and read through some of the online summaries  | |
| | | | Confessor Kahlan
Primary Character
Posts : 810
Join date : 2009-05-31
Age : 51
Location : In the palace at Farilay
| | Subject: Re: A Dance With Dragons Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:03 am | |
| I'm still in the middle of reading it so I haven't read all of the posts just in case but while I am enjoying it, it does seem to be a little disjointed. | |
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