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RainCloud
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PostSubject: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:21 pm

I think this was discussed elsewhere but it deserves its own thread of awesomeness. But as such, it will probably contain spoilers for the books.

The book series was great. Just wonderful. It was like historical fiction with an element of magic and otherworldness. Oh, haha, my bad. That's what it was. Such a great book series and now its becoming a tv series! I believe the premier is on April 22? Somewhere thereabouts. It looks like it is going to be pretty close to the books, plot wise, and it will probably appeal to a wide audience (I've seen fight scenes, dramatic scenes, and expect love scenes even). I'm so excited!

I can already see one flaw, I think, though, that I'm not sure how they are going to get around. The man who plays Jaime Lannister, his hair is not blonde. Cersei's is but Jaime's isn't. That might make some later scenes very difficult.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:17 pm

Looking forward to seeing the show. Honestly, things like the character's appearances (hair, eyes, height, etc) isnt something I care overmuch about. Its if the actors can portray the characters' personalities sufficiently. You need an actor that can pull it off, and you just can't guarantee that the best candidate in terms of acting ability in the context of their role will also fit the appearance description the best. So when it comes down to it, I'll sacrifice hair and eye colour for talent.

Plus, neither Dany nor her brother will have the purple eyes that characterized their family's royal bloodline. So w/e to the hair Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:55 am

Well, the blonde hair was how the other made the connection that Cersei's children were Jaime's, that she was sleeping with her brother. That's the only reason I care, since its a plot point. Otherwise, I would totally be with you haha
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:53 pm

Premiers the 17th, this Sunday. I will have to bootleg it off the webs cause I don't have HBO.

I saw the first 15 minutes on their site... It is amazing.

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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:30 am

Starts on Monday over this side of the Atlantic. I'm really looking forward to it, and so glad that we don't have to wait months to see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:33 pm

I'll have to wait months to see the rest of the series cause I'll b in training lol. HBO has shittastic timing.

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(Aug 11-22:03) rainshadow: I figured we'd go for variation.
(Aug 11-22:03) Nicci0808: ahh ok
(Aug 11-22:04) rainshadow: Just one way gets boring.
(Aug 11-22:04) rainshadow: Or so I hear.
(Aug 11-22:04) PyroMancer: that is true
(Aug 11-22:04) Nicci0808: i wasn't planning on you lasting that long
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:22 am

Well, I'll be waiting too, Pyro, but for different reasons. I don't have HBO :'( So if someone figures out where I could watch this online, maybe that person could pm me? Hint, hint?
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:07 am

I'm the same... don't have HBO. Will have to wait for the episodes to be made available online.

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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:17 am

Don't think they'll be on Hulu. They don't seem to do HBO, although I could be wrong. /sigh It'll be out on Netflix like next year Sad *passes out* Oh god. Next year, the year I actually start my life as an adult. Figures.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:36 am

Hulu doesn't do HBO 'cause HBO doesn't let anyone put their shows online for free. Legally, anyway.

DirecTV was doing a promo this weekend with free HBO so I managed to watch it last night, and it was AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

"The things I do for love..."

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(Aug 11-22:03) rainshadow: I figured we'd go for variation.
(Aug 11-22:03) Nicci0808: ahh ok
(Aug 11-22:04) rainshadow: Just one way gets boring.
(Aug 11-22:04) rainshadow: Or so I hear.
(Aug 11-22:04) PyroMancer: that is true
(Aug 11-22:04) Nicci0808: i wasn't planning on you lasting that long
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:44 am

PyroMancer wrote:
Hulu doesn't do HBO 'cause HBO doesn't let anyone put their shows online for free. Legally, anyway.

DirecTV was doing a promo this weekend with free HBO so I managed to watch it last night, and it was AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

"The things I do for love..."

ZOMG! So jealous! I'm so glad they did a good job with the series. Its such an amazing series. I do have to admit that I'm still coming to terms with the idea that the seasons can last for years... I always figured "Winter is coming" is more symbolic than realistic. Apparently I was lying to myself though, lol, cuz I wanted it to be true.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:45 pm

I saw it on this side of the pond last night. I've never read the books. From what I've heard of GRRM's characters I wasn't sure they'd be my thing. I like characters I can get to know, who I like, and by all accounts he has a habit of killing them off. And had quite dark/depressing themes.

The series was everything I've come to expect from HBO - beautifully filmed, good script, good acting, random nudity and sex (not so good when watching it with my father! :-o ). I'm definitely going to see where it goes and if I like it I *may* be tempted to read the books.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:08 pm

Most people describe the books as you have ... and that does tend to turn some potential readers away ... Let me desibe them differently for you ... GRRM writes his stories and lets REAL things happen. Hero's can be maimed or worse, Battles can be lost, Anti-Hero's can change their values, etc.. GRRM certainly doesn't write your typical Rainbows & Strawberries, Hero never loses, Fantasy. Myself, I found it to be a breath fo fresh air really.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:01 am

I really enjoyed the show. It's been a while since I read the books and I found myself saying "Oh yeah, I remember that now" on several occasions during the first episode. Looking forward to more. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:55 pm

I've now watched the premiere episode 6 times Very Happy

HBO has been playing the crap out of it here ... was on back to back sunday night on HBO, then after that, twice again on HBO2 the same night. It was on twice again during the week! And I watched every broadcast of it!

Amazingly, I'm seeing different/new things each time I watch it. I really enjoyed the books, but have only read them once. This show is turning out to be a lot like the SoT series in that I can read/watch it over and over and still fidn somethign new to take from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:32 am

Quote :
Let me desibe them differently for you ... GRRM writes his stories and lets HORRIBLE things happen.
Fixed that for you.

I mean, let's face it: Death, maiming, and torture are, and have always been, the rare exception. In my 26.5 years of life I've been injured bad enough to leave permanent scars twice, broken four bones, been seriously disfigured once, people have tried to murder me four times, I've seriously contemplated killing another human being three times, and only really came close once (to clarify: one time I was going to kill someone was because someone else was going to do worse, one time was because the person was going to, and I quote, "kidnap your little sister", and once was because the moron pulled a knife and didn't realize I was behind him). This is less than what any one of GRRM's characters experiences in a given CHAPTER at times. And my life is considered by most people I talk to an increadible, nearly unbelievable, series of events, to the point where I've had to provide proof and witnesses on a number of occasions.

GRRM does NOT show reality, any more than Tolkien did. Both are highly stylized. It's necessarily that way--there is a limited amount of space in a book, and any given day in the life of even the most boring person would fill a novel. You have to pull some of it. Tolkien chose to not mention how often his characters were injured (though he does outline a fair number of injuries, including the deaths of several protagonists [yes, Gandalf died; the fact that he got better doesn't negate that fact]). GRRM removed a lot of the self-promoting heroism (to the point where Robert Baratheon was a characiture; NO king, no one who has ever wanted to be a king, and no one who has ever had a leading roll in a rebelion, in the history of the planet, has ever done so because they wanted to kill their enemies and sleep with women; such people do not become leaders, nor do they form the core of a successfull rebelion). To say that one is more "real" than the other is to say that Reality is stylized, which is wrong; Reality simply is.

One counter-argument to my argument may be that the Middle Ages were more brutal than today. Which, to a certain extent, is true--my injuries generally wouldn't have been counted as serious (or would have killed me, one or the other) in the Middle Ages. However, most injuries would have been due to what we today would consider industrial accidents--farming, blacksmithing, construction, and the like. Also, I present as counter-evidence the fact that one of the reasons for the Battle of Agencourt was that England had too many nobles, and the King decided that a good way to get rid of second and third sons was a war, because if they lost he'd have fewer nobles and if they won, well, they would have kicked France's butt and would have land for the nobles. Several of the Crusades were initiated for similar reasons. Considering the fact that A Song of Ice and Fire takes place in the Upper Middle Ages (rather than the Lower Middle Ages, as The Lord of the Rings did and which actually WAS more brutal and more prone to roaving bands of raders [El Cid, for example]), the idea that brutality was a common fact of life just doesn't hold up.

Don't get me wrong--I enjoy GRRM's works, and am looking forward to seeing the series (I have more or less boycotted TV, for reasons that have nothing to do with television, oddly enough, so spending money on HBO is just plain silly). I simply dislike the idea of calling something more "real", when in truth it's equally stylized, and often more so.

As for the fact that GRRM does horrible things to his main characters being a breath of fresh air.....not really. The real novelty of the series is, from my perspective, the lack of real antagonists. By that I mean, you really can pick which side you side with. Few are going to side with the Lanisters, but it's a legitimate side to take, one which people in the Middle Ages would have found perfectly rational (the whole "plucky underdog" thing is a modern aesthetic; Beowolf, the Norse sagas, Robin Hood [who was a nobleman fighting to regain his title, and had a ready-made army at hand], El Cid, even Aragorn and Feanor are examples of the aesthetic of the Middle Ages). It's a style of writing that I find facinating, particularly in regards to video games. Here I mean that one of the ways to portray morality in video games that's been kicked around is the idea that there's no real Morality Bar, but rather a metric for how much each faction likes you. GRRM's novels are that concept applied to literature. Sure, a handful of characters are obviously set up to be protagonists--but really, your own ethics is the final deciding factor. The only real "bad guy" is the Others, and, well, you've seen how much a roll THEY play.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:26 am

I'm with you Dinwar. He portrays realistic events, but does it so often to the exclusion of things that don't utterly suck for every character involved that it enters into the realm of TOO much realism.

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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:37 am

I can't disagree with anything you said Dinwar. GRRM certainly does focus on the more extreme of events in his characters lives, and rarely do they get a chance to "breathe". That in itself does remove a lot of realism.

That said, my comment about GRRM writing about "REAL things" was more of a poke at other authors in the same genre. Far too often, I read their books and see hero's barely breaking a sweat during battles they probably should have lost. It's rare to see any real hardship befall the other members of the Hero's "side" of the plot. Sure, they get the odd knock and bump along the way to keep the Hero dedicated to his cause, but that's all it seems to be usually.

That's why i find TG and GRRM such refreshing reads. You don't really know what's going to happen - just like real life. Granted, there are a fair number of "mainstream" fantasy authors I have not read for one reason or another, but these two authors are the only ones that I have read that have managed to convincingly have an anti-hero change sides, or have heroic types do thigns that were of a benefit to the "dark side".
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:18 pm

I just have to add (since I've been listening to it) that this is also occasionally true of the Wheel of Time books. Although the characters in WoT sometimes miraculously come through sticky situations (although maybe I just missed a part of the book lol). I think that really defines a great book, the suspension of disbelief.

Now, can anyone tell me if they resolved the hair color thing yet? It seems like it would be early for that but the facebook feed makes it seem like they're already there, somehow. For those who have watched it, does it seem to be moving fast?
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:05 pm

No idea what the hair issue is/was ...

Speed of the series is very fast. Even on my 6'th viewing of Ep. 1, I was still surprised how quickly an hour passed. Ep. 2 was no different ... and while it's been a while since I read the books, it feels to me that they are moving through Book 1 fairly quickly. I seem to remember a lot fo "plot set up" in the book though, and that would make for some dead time on TV, so skipping some of that could explain why I think they are further than I would expect.

SPOILER ALERT - GENERAL PLOT STATUS TO END OF EPISODE 2

For a judgment of speed of the TV series, by the end of Episode 2 ...

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:39 pm

Quote :
but these two authors are the only ones that I have read that have managed to convincingly have an anti-hero change sides, or have heroic types do thigns that were of a benefit to the "dark side".
I've never understood the appeal of the evil "hero". I mean, I get the desire to have things happen in a book that make sense--I cringe when I read about a hero slaughtering whole armies (there are ways to do it, but not many and it's always a craps shoot). At the same time, "real" doesn't mean "evil", or anti-hero, or working for the "dark side". There are many people alive today who have never done anything more evil than speed. There are many historic heros who were genuinely (by the standards of their people) heroic--who were NOT evil, in any way that mattered to the person. Evil isn't a necessary part of reality, nor is a dark side.



I get why authors do it, though. It's a cheap trick to make their heros SEEM more real. It's easy, at least compared to actually making realistic characters. And to be clear, I don't believe that GRRM is an author that does this (I won't spoil it, but there's sufficient evidence for this in the books).

Quote :
GRRM certainly does focus on the more extreme of events in his characters lives,
Not quite what I said. Wink GRRM focuses on the BAD events in his characters' lives. Right now, sure, there's a lot of bad going on--but we only get brief glimpses at anything that's not devistatingly horrible. And the characters are naerly all ethically so confused that they may as well be amoral. There are a few exceptions (won't spoil anything), but most are dead. Of course, as I always say, GRRM isn't done yet, and there's some serious indications hinting that things are going to change.

After all, winter is coming. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Sat May 07, 2011 1:31 am

One is for certain, Legend of the Seeker has NO comparison to A Game of Thrones. IMO, there was a lot of undeserved praise lavished on Legend of the Seeker. I do not exaggerate when I say that A Game of Thrones is ten times better. The visuals are absolutely breathtaking (like the wall and Kings Landing).

It really saddens me that Terry books didn't get a similar treatment.

The 10 episode length also appears to be perfect (though we are only through the first third right now). A movie is not long enough and a full 22-24 episode season is far too long.

I watched the episodes with a friend of mine who had no exposure to A Song of Ice and Fire and he completely enjoyed it. I also love the show and I can't help but smile everytime I recognized parts of the dialogue (which is quite often).
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Sat May 07, 2011 4:45 am

fogofwar wrote:
One is for certain, Legend of the Seeker has NO comparison to A Game of Thrones. IMO, there was a lot of undeserved praise lavished on Legend of the Seeker. I do not exaggerate when I say that A Game of Thrones is ten times better. The visuals are absolutely breathtaking (like the wall and Kings Landing).

It really saddens me that Terry books didn't get a similar treatment.

I agree with you there. I mean, yes I enjoyed LoTS as a generic fantasy based tv show but as far as a screen adaptation of a book goes, Game of Thrones is far superior.
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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Tue May 10, 2011 11:40 pm

Man I can't get over how great a job the show has done in its adaptation of the book.

The characters are almost exactly as I pictured them, in behaviour even more than appearance. The plot is spot on too.

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PostSubject: Re: Game of Thrones   Wed May 11, 2011 12:30 am

I just finished watching the fourth episode... and man the final scene gave me goosebumps. For those who haven't seen it yet it ends with Catelyn having Tyrion arrested in an inn for conspiring to murder Bran. It was superbly done!

Tyrion and Jon Snow, as in the books, are my favourite characters. They both do such a good job.

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